[Max Headroom]

If you want to talk about plot loss, look no further than BMW dropping their epic "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan in favour of some wimpy bullshit about "Joy". Pass me my handbag and get me a tissue, please . . . .

Like Subaru, BMW in the past were distinguished by cars (and motorcycles) which were designed and built by engineers and enthusiasts. As the marketing suits began to invade the decision-making offices and boardrooms, the focus and the company values which built their reputation have continued to be diluted. For BMW, the decline began in the mid '90s with their previous reputation for reliability and quality becoming increasingly tainted. I see a similar trend with Subaru, as their current product range becomes less attractive as an ownership proposition. I think the current Legacy is pig ugly, yet consider the BP very attractive.

Maybe it's just too subjective . . . .

[Shale]

Subjectivity is exactly it - it's the same in all forms of design. There are general rules to what people find attractive, but the rules are there to be broken. Whether you break 'em because you know what you're doing, or because you have no regard for them, defines success or failure to the masses. This is one of the things we learn at the very beginning of any design qualification.

Well, that and some sharp suits running marketing lines, as you mentioned.

I guess we get to sit back and watch as they spend the rest of their days whining about no one understanding/wanting the marque. For as long as vehicles are designed by marketing managers and execs rather than engineers and designers, it's a slippery slope.

[Max Headroom]

I've never done a formal (or even an informal) design course and am no artist, but i know what I like and I have a view of aesthetics and form which has been shaped over a long period of time. My primary opinion is that form should follow function, not the other way around. I have little time for stuff that isn't fit for purpose, no matter how good it may look.


I have an old Nikon FM SLR camera which doesn't see much activity these days sadly, but it's a pleasure to hold in one's hands and intuitive to use. Although it has a built in light meter, it is fully manual and can even be operated when the battery is flat. I have an old BMW motorcycle which is celebrating its 35th birthday in November, and it's an object lesson as an example of form following function.

[SICNIS]

reminds me of the new peugeot

[Familyman]

Shale, on 25 September 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

... They have forgotten the BC/GC, and they have ignored the countless communities like ours that still fly the flag - albeit the old one.

THIS!!! Nissan are a prime example of remembering their heritage. Take a look at the C-pillar of R35 GTR and you see the KPGC10 Prince Skyline, look at the 370Z rear half profile and there are tributes to the 240Z!

And this gets and keeps repeat customers while chasing the WASP dollar. White middle aged men still remember back in the day and what they drove then, and they especially remember the enjoyment from those cars back then.

[boostin]

Familyman, on 25 September 2011 - 3:21 PM, said:

Shale, on 25 September 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

... They have forgotten the BC/GC, and they have ignored the countless communities like ours that still fly the flag - albeit the old one.

THIS!!! Nissan are a prime example of remembering their heritage. Take a look at the C-pillar of R35 GTR and you see the KPGC10 Prince Skyline, look at the 370Z rear half profile and there are tributes to the 240Z!

And this gets and keeps repeat customers while chasing the WASP dollar. White middle aged men still remember back in the day and what they drove then, and they especially remember the enjoyment from those cars back then.

I see 4 wheels, just like the original GC Impreza.

[Reuben]

I swear I only saw 3.

[matdaymon]

Looks aside
"Subaru crew did it without making a larger car. In fact, the Impreza is the same length (180.3 inches for the sedan and 173.8 for the wagon) and width as the outgoing model, while the wheelbase of both the sedan and five-door has grown by an inch to span a total of 104.1 inches."

Does that make sense to anyone??? How is the sedan being longer useful in any way? Doesn't common sense dictate that the wagon, which you would buy for storage space would be bigger/longer than a sedan? Or am I missing something here?

[Shale]

Yes, yes you are missing something. That's WHEELBASE, not overall length And the Impreza, traditionally, has bucked the trend and been the same throughout the lot, including back in the day when the sportwagon, coupe and sedan were all identical bar weight.

[boostin]

Short wheel base makes a car "nippier", but easy to spin when on the edge. A longer wheel base feels more lazy, but is more resistant to spinning out. Basically you want the wheels as close to the corners of the car as possible. Check out 80's and 90's BMW 3 series. The front wheels are virtually in the front bumper!

[Reuben]

Plus the 'wagon' isn't a wagon, it's a hatch back.... But for some reason they called it a wagon. I suspect for US marketing reasons.

[Shale]

The GF/GG is a 'sport' wagon, NOT a hatch.







Dunno why I didn't do this earlier - actually research and point out the difference. It's a pointless argument that's irritated me for years - people swearing black and blue that the early Impreza is a hatch, where around the world Subaru has called it a wagon. Even in the UK, where they call such things 'estates'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatchback

The key is in the D-pillar. Wagons have a discernable one - notice most hatches, including the new Impreza, have a mangled, sloping excuse for one instead. The shapes are distinctly different - even between the outgoing GG Impreza and the new GH.

[Reuben]

Yes.. the GF is a wagon... I didn't call it a hatch... In case you hadn't noticed, this thread is about the GP/GL, not the GC/GF. I was calling the GP a hatch, now get off your high horse.

[Shale]

I'm not very good at conversations that are broken over a series of days it seems